Tell me now....do you like the Movie Transformer Designs?

Bubbalou · Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject:

nelson wrote:

I've recently received e-mails from people asking if it is too late to change the designs of the CGI robots and/or their faces. Apparently, someone has started a rumor that there is still time to make changes, etc, etc.

So I decided to call Michael and ask.

The CGI robot movie designs have been finalized since last year. They're not being changed.

...
figures.
oh well.
While I prefer that they'd've thought a bit harder about the design themes, we're stuck with it. complaining won't help, unfortunately. it seems that when the first pic was leaked, they were already finalized. perhaps they were leaked on purpose to wow some and irritate others, which i'm sure they were well aware.

irritating as this news is, I am not the slightest bit surprised. by the time post-production starts, nothing can really be changed except for textures and whatnot, but being 6 months from release, ... flames are here to stay, like them or not.

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KneonT · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:21 am Post subject:

Well gee, we didn't see that coming. Laughing

Of course they were finalized last year. Do people have any idea how long it takes to do CGI? Engineer toys? Yes, the designs we saw were old -- but also final. So it was a half-truth, I suppose.

Too bad they didn't leak 'em sooner when there was still time for change. Now I'm afraid Bay's "secret" robot designs are being leaked just to give fans time to get used to 'em. Better to rant now than demand your money back at the theater. Laughing

But what about all the casual fans who aren't keeping up with this stuff on the internet...?

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Lady_Decepticon · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject:

I'm just trying to understand why the Transformers have such a complicated transformation scheme to them. They barely look like their bits and pieces could transform into a solid vehicle.

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Talking To Vapour · Lost Post Whore Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 821

Lady_Decepticon wrote:

I'm just trying to understand why the Transformers have such a complicated transformation scheme to them. They barely look like their bits and pieces could transform into a solid vehicle.

To elaborate, look at how many big boxy vehicles are in this film. Ratchet, Prime, and Bonecrusher seem far too slight and skinny to come from such hulking vehicles.

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Galvatron
Shockwave
Devastator
Grimlock (dino)
Sludge (dino)
Slag (dino)
Megatron (tank)
Ultra Magnus (with trailer)
Inferno
Soundwave
Ironhide
Blitzwing
Astrotrain
Warpath
Upscaled Starscream

Covenant · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject:

Yet, as shart as some of them may look, the toys resemble reality better being they must function as such.

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pristine_matrix · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject:

I'd apologise for my opinion but it's my opinion so I'm not going to apologise for it.

I really like the designs on a general level.

I've seen the notalgia-friendly G1 Transformers and loved them.

I've seen the more-humanistic Beast Wars models and liked them.

I've seen the Tron-Cum-Jack Skelington twisted stylings of Beast Machines and loved them.

I adored the RID designs.

And enjoyed the Unicron Trilogy designs.

I've seen all of those. Repeatedly, courtesy of DVD.

I do want an update. An honest to goodness, not slight, update. And what I've seen so far has made me happy. My final judgement will be when I see them on screen.

My final judgement on the movie will be based on the quality of the movie as a whole and how much the Transformers feature in it.

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KneonT · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject:

pristine_matrix wrote:

I'd apologise for my opinion but it's my opinion so I'm not going to apologise for it.

Nor should you have to apologise! Contrary to the spin of some other message boards, you're allowed to like on TFLost.* Very Happy

*Though, apparently, on those same boards you're not allowed to dislike. What a shame.

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Covenant · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject:

pristine_matrix wrote:

I'd apologise for my opinion but it's my opinion so I'm not going to apologise for it.

Pris, ain't no reason for you to apologize for crap. Smile

Glad you, as well as others, dig the designs as they will be what we'll be receiving. Smile

In fact, just showed the trailer to a bud of mine not into Transformers so much as us, and opposite of Apothecary (who ranks in the same "care" category), he thinks it looks tight. Smile

pristine_matrix wrote:

I really like the designs on a general level.

And I cannot deny, even I (other than the head) dig the crap out of Blackout (or whatever his name is).

pristine_matrix wrote:

I do want an update. An honest to goodness, not slight, update. And what I've seen so far has made me happy. My final judgement will be when I see them on screen.

Mine as well. All the opinions, and those of others regardless of stance, rest on what we know so far. It's just in this fella's case, I want an update as well, just not this way.

pristine_matrix wrote:

My final judgement on the movie will be based on the quality of the movie as a whole and how much the Transformers feature in it.

As I've said prior, it will likely be a fantastic summer action flick, just not what I was personally waiting twenty years+ for in the way of Transformers.

Sorry to reply so much with this. You caught me tipsy and I felt the need to share. Very Happy

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Trump · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject:

I like the movie designs. I really do. Very Happy

I didn't like the Screamer design at first, but when I looked it after staying away from the boards for a while, I realized that I liked it.

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King of Kings · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject:

I like some designs but not all, namely Starscream & Megatron other than that I don't mind the others

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pristine_matrix · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject:

Covenant wrote:

Pris, ain't no reason for you to apologize for crap. Smile

Glad you, as well as others, dig the designs as they will be what we'll be receiving. Smile

In fact, just showed the trailer to a bud of mine not into Transformers so much as us, and opposite of Apothecary (who ranks in the same "care" category), he thinks it looks tight. Smile

Mmmmm. It's pretty obvious that THAT is what the company are trying to achieve. And I agree that it's a shame they havent targetted it at the fan base more, a la X-Men. But then again, superhero movies are more relatable as heroes than giant robot shape shifting aliens. It's pretty hard for Joe Public to identify with that. At least, thats again my opinion.

Quote:

And I cannot deny, even I (other than the head) dig the crap out of Blackout (or whatever his name is).

I like his head. It looks fierce. And he is, without question, the coolest looking of all the designs.

Quote:

Mine as well. All the opinions, and those of others regardless of stance, rest on what we know so far. It's just in this fella's case, I want an update as well, just not this way.

As I've said prior, it will likely be a fantastic summer action flick, just not what I was personally waiting twenty years+ for in the way of Transformers.

Mmmm. I think it's definately questionable. But would you really want another G1 movie? I mean, we've had one.

Know what I mean?

Quote:

Sorry to reply so much with this. You caught me tipsy and I felt the need to share. Very Happy

Never apologise for being drunk. Smile

Especially not to an Irishman.

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Covenant · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject:

Rock.

Rock as well for all reply supplied my main man pris, with the exception of one thing...

pristine_matrix wrote:

Mmmm. I think it's definately questionable. But would you really want another G1 movie? I mean, we've had one.

Know what I mean?

In absolute honesty, other than childhood nostalgia, the original animated movie didn't do it for me.

This is, or was, the film I had been waiting two decades for. While I could just up & chalk it up to great expectations and preconceived notions, I'd rather say it's just not what it honestly should be in the way of the live action/cg debute of the one item in life I'm surely fanatical about. It's not what I would envision, not what I say represents what the Transformers are in my opinion (if nothing more than aesthetics), and not what I'd wish to represent the Transformers franchise to the public, nah mean?

But, again, I'm happy there are fellow fans that are digging it, regardless if it's not my cup o'tea. Very Happy

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pristine_matrix · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject:

Covenant wrote:

Rock.

Rock as well for all reply supplied my main man pris, with the exception of one thing...

pristine_matrix wrote:

Mmmm. I think it's definately questionable. But would you really want another G1 movie? I mean, we've had one.

Know what I mean?

In absolute honesty, other than childhood nostalgia, the original animated movie didn't do it for me.

This is, or was, the film I had been waiting two decades for. While I could just up & chalk it up to great expectations and preconceived notions, I'd rather say it's just not what it honestly should be in the way of the live action/cg debute of the one item in life I'm surely fanatical about. It's not what I would envision, not what I say represents what the Transformers are in my opinion (if nothing more than aesthetics), and not what I'd wish to represent the Transformers franchise to the public, nah mean?

But, again, I'm happy there are fellow fans that are digging it, regardless if it's not my cup o'tea. Very Happy

Fair enough then. Not everyone will be pleased, of that I'm sure.

But alot will. Maybe not the majority. But the love for Transformers spans the world. So, I reckon it'll please enough people and do enough business globally to warrant a sequel.

If it's hurrendous, I would love to be a fly on the wall for the reactions on Murphy's board. It would be interesting to see if the folks over there still back him if it completely obliterates the fundamental concept that is Transformers(in a bad way).

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Talking To Vapour · Lost Post Whore Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 821

I think it will be quite a good film actually..I get the impression the visuals will be incredible the way some of the film and cast talk about them. Normally, a giant robot war film would be at the very top of my "must see" list. I just feel a bit sad it won't have the Transformery goodness that I just know would translate nicely to the big screen. Sad

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Masterpiece wishlist:

Galvatron
Shockwave
Devastator
Grimlock (dino)
Sludge (dino)
Slag (dino)
Megatron (tank)
Ultra Magnus (with trailer)
Inferno
Soundwave
Ironhide
Blitzwing
Astrotrain
Warpath
Upscaled Starscream

Autobloke · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject:

pristine_matrix wrote:

But then again, superhero movies are more relatable as heroes than giant robot shape shifting aliens. It's pretty hard for Joe Public to identify with that. At least, thats again my opinion

Although we're still getting a giant robot shapeshifting alien movie, so why not with the older designs (updated with slightly more respect)?
Will Joe Public find it easier to relate to these new versions than they may have to something nearer the older designs? No-one knows - and that's why the radical change is so confusing when taken in that context, as it has no real basis in fact there was ever a need for the big changes.

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Covenant · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:18 am Post subject:

Amen.

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KneonT · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:52 am Post subject:

Covenant wrote:

This is, or was, the film I had been waiting two decades for. While I could just up & chalk it up to great expectations and preconceived notions, I'd rather say it's just not what it honestly should be in the way of the live action/cg debute of the one item in life I'm surely fanatical about. It's not what I would envision, not what I say represents what the Transformers are in my opinion (if nothing more than aesthetics), and not what I'd wish to represent the Transformers franchise to the public, nah mean?

I predict Transformers will be The Phantom Menace of this decade. Everybody will go see it, and complain the following Monday. Then they'll go back and see it again just to find more things to complain about. Laughing

EDIT: And I predict it'll be as maligned in the fandom for years to come like TPM. Still think it'll make money, but will not be well received. Just clarifying that a bit -- not that fans will go just to complain. It's just the expectations are so high... there's no possible way to meet them.

Sadly, the production doesn't even seem to be trying. They just tossed much of it aside. Laughing

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Covenant · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:

KneonT wrote:

Sadly, the production doesn't even seem to be trying. They just tossed much of it aside. Laughing

And that's usually not the admission of those both liking of the film, but argumentative of those not liking (not strictly movie-digging fans, mind you).

Like with that wrongly deleted topic at TFL just this weekend. (GRRR Evil or Very Mad

)

I don't recall offhand what sparked it all, probably a single statement as is the case half the time, but I got into it with Span once again. I think it may have been something he tried to get onto Bloke & I about, which turned into his suggestion that I did, in fact, want nothing more than a cartoon copy of the original cartoon set to computer graphics.

Just hit me! It was Prime & Jazz. He'd said something about those two being the two most recognizable of the bunch, and when that was disagreed with he became defensive. I made a comment regarding as much as I know those liking of the film dig going over the tiniest of aspects on bots like Movie Prime & Jazz trying to find anything to attribute a link between the two with their counterparts of the original series, I simply didn't find the recognition there in a well-representative aesthetically pleasing amount. Surely not one I'd try to sell off of, etc, etc. Same kind of stuff that went around eventually in the surprisingly non-deleted "

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for a bit.

I used several images comparing this to that in both a show of akin & departure, for one of the better put points someone like me has been trying to make for some time. Great that it's all gone, btw again.

Presented through the use of images how, while the attempt of course can be noted (let's say) that the larger, more humanoid, red & blue robot thing with a blue Batman-eared head and a large gun is intended be the movie rendered representation of Prime, it just doesn't reflect the solidly designed Autobot leader known for ages. How, ugly attempt at a similar head shape (that's shape, not design) on Jazz didn't quite cut the mustard in striking back to the character of the same name, the character of which they were attempting to "update" with their "formula". How even a repainted Movie Ratchet toy (done so in red & white) didn't strike a cord of your original series "Ratchet".

Even after noting to him that MP Prime (regardless of intent) was not cartoon Prime (

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is Cartoon Optimus Prime and a "carbon copy" cg render of his impossibly existing self would be more a cg copy of a statue or Actionmaster, unlike Masterpiece Prime where the item is fully functional in transforming, akin to the intended image of the intended character and something certainly realistic in the way of Transformers representations), that Alternator Jazz/Meister was not Cartoon Jazz, he still couldn't get it through his head. As such, rather than realizing the point being made was that you can have something of realistic/functional design that is aesthetically pleasing within the standards of the franchise, and of course not supplying a reasoning why doing as such would be detrimental in some way to a debut cgi/live action film for the Transformers, he had the nerve to say some dismissive (surprise) comment about how maybe live action/cg rendered Transformers isn't the ideal media for me (actually I think he called it a genre).

Just a bunch of self-denial that

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can somehow represent

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, but the notion of something along the design lines of

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put to cg is "too cartoony" or straight up impossible, if you ask me. Rolling Eyes

Now, since the point I was making is not only clear, not only legitimate, and not only sound, I can only assume (and said this) that his ultimate implication was that silly notion that Bay's way of Transformers would have been the only way to achieve realistic Transformers on the big screen, which I ain't buying. Especially with how much to the contrary on that "Bay's TFs are more realistic" notion a good deal of us have presented in the Debunking Game thread (I love that thing).

Then later somebody swooped in and said something about how yours truly would have been happy to use cg rendered images more along the lines I was speaking to, but the only guy in the business that had done so professionally (Bay & Co) had missed the mark by a mile. Somebody else followed it up with a "Bingo!" & something, then I took another drink, posted "Rock" and left the internet for the evening. Smile

And, bad TFL moderating choices later, here we are.

And let me just clarify something here rather than quietly drive a wedge further into the rift as it exists everywhere else. Those creating the film admitted to the obvious departure, but for all the wrong reasons. When someone such as myself so passionately calls bs on the bs, it's usually because the obvious has been wrapped in a lie and there's fellow fans taking it upon themselves to defend the lie, or conveniently come up with their own line of thinking in support of the lie. It's basically me going out to the local pasta place, the new chef sending out a plate of [___anything that is not the garlic parmesan fettuccine I ordered___], this chef claiming he did send out the garlic parmesan fettuccine but better because it's now that plate of [___anything that is not the garlic parmesan fettuccine I ordered___], and while I'm sitting there indignant what I've been sitting at this table waiting oh couple of decades for (man's hungry) is not what it should have been, trying to figure out how it can be what I ordered when it's not, I've got a waiter and some nosy guy at the table next to me trying to explain how this is what I ordered/better than what I ordered/and highly indicative of garlic parmesan fettuccine without have garlic, parmesan or fettuccine pasta. Etc.

If you dig what we know of the movie so far, I'm happy for you, much in the same way I hope you'd be happy for me if this were wonderfully different and that ideal film folks like myself have been awaiting were suddenly being manufactured. I can get behind that kind of anticipation, joy, and excitement even if its not my own. Just helps when you don't have someone trying to tell you a peach is an apple. Helps even more when you don't dismiss, piss off, and insult not only the fanbase of a long existing franchise but at times the franchise itself.

Smile

Actually, Wishful came back honestly on a couple of items amid the usual banter on why the movie is what it is..

Wishful Thinking @ TFL wrote:

Because they're sacrificing the one to gain three more. Apparently, they believe that the gamble on the new designs is a sure bet.

Could there have been more compromise? Probably, yes, but fan service is an option, not a requirement for the filmmakers to make an entertaining Transformers movie.

Again, there could be better compromise (the Autobots are definitely a better example than the Decepticons), but they're pushing the designs away from what fan's want and what is perceived as what the general action flick audience prefers. It's a matter of what looks "kewl" while shedding the "toy" image that would turn off people like my father from seeing it. There could have been more compromise, but making an entertaining movie doesn't hinge on it.

Now no matter what you or I may say on the validity of that line of thinking, that's exactly the mindset behind it all. It's the kind of honesty that should have been held by those producing the film from day one, rather than the doublespeak, bs explanations, and contradictory runaround.

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KneonT · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject:

Covenant wrote:

Wishful Thinking @ TFL wrote:

Because they're sacrificing the one to gain three more. Apparently, they believe that the gamble on the new designs is a sure bet.

Could there have been more compromise? Probably, yes, but fan service is an option, not a requirement for the filmmakers to make an entertaining Transformers movie.

Again, there could be better compromise (the Autobots are definitely a better example than the Decepticons), but they're pushing the designs away from what fan's want and what is perceived as what the general action flick audience prefers. It's a matter of what looks "kewl" while shedding the "toy" image that would turn off people like my father from seeing it. There could have been more compromise, but making an entertaining movie doesn't hinge on it.

Now no matter what you or I may say on the validity of that line of thinking, that's exactly the mindset behind it all. It's the kind of honesty that should have been held by those producing the film from day one, rather than the doublespeak, bs explanations, and contradictory runaround.

Basically, ID4, Armageddon and War of the Worlds made money. The animated Transformers movie did not. So, given that, which do you think they're going to base a multi-million dollar movie on?

OK, fair enough.

But like Cov has said, and as I've said in the past... just be honest about it. They've been beating the G1 nostalgia drum for YEARS, only to do an about face now.

Why?

ID4's revenue + 80s nostalgia + established comic geek fanbase = bigger take than ID4?

Honestly, the bean counters probably looked at this and just thought to themselves "alien invasion movies are hot" and "comic book movies are hot." Put the two together and, in their minds, it's money in the bank. That would be my guess.

The Transformers fans will be put off by the changes, and the sci-fi/action crowd may think it's just too cartoony, no matter how "realistic" the designs. (I mean, c'mon, "Autobots" from "Cybertron" with names like "Bumblebee" and "Jazz?" Chasing after a McGuffin that magically brings iPods to life? In a "realistic" action flick?)

Sometimes when you try and please everyone, you wind up pleasing no one.

Only time with tell. Confused

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Talking To Vapour · Lost Post Whore Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 821

Covenant wrote:

Like with that wrongly deleted topic at TFL just this weekend. (GRRR Evil or Very Mad

)

They deleted that topic? ugh. They seem to be deleting more stuff lately. I can only sympathise you getting into it like that with Spanbauer, he is so dense or willingly obtuse that he will not accept you don't want exact G1 cartoon efforts no matter how often you tell him... I had a comment to Nelson deleted too, when he said something about how the designs were final and I sarcastically brought up his "old designs" gaffe from prior to the trailer.

_________________
Masterpiece wishlist:

Galvatron
Shockwave
Devastator
Grimlock (dino)
Sludge (dino)
Slag (dino)
Megatron (tank)
Ultra Magnus (with trailer)
Inferno
Soundwave
Ironhide
Blitzwing
Astrotrain
Warpath
Upscaled Starscream

KneonT · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject:

Talking To Vapour wrote:

I had a comment to Nelson deleted too, when he said something about how the designs were final and I sarcastically brought up his "old designs" gaffe from prior to the trailer.

Buying time... trying to diffuse the fan backlash...

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Covenant · Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure where to post this, especially since I'm going to attempt to only post news here if anything for a while and keep the facts stated over, & over, & over along with my clear opinions on the breather side of things for a while; But I figured the first topic (looking down the list) regarding movie designs would be a good place for this.

Over at TFL I offered yet again a suggestion of a cg, slightly altered MP Starscream as an alternative to what's there now (not in a demand to have, but more a better route that could have been taken once upon a time). A big issue brought up most of the time is size, as that would make him quite tall (ask Span, he'll be happy to tell ya).

Well, being that you can't have old Starscream being the big guy of the bunch, I both offered the suggestion Megatron be made larger/more massive/taller (which would be simple if left to the single Cybertronian airborne mode....no, not the thing he is now, mind you) then Prime done the same with an extended semi truck or combination with a trailer.

But, imagine the following image modified to sleek it up a bit, and given corresponding trailer....

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Autobloke · Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject:

Someone recolour that red with a white stripe and make the black on the sides blue. Smile

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Cornmuffin · Lost Member Joined: 04 Feb 2007 Posts: 62

i'd say they're ok from what i've seen...
i think optimus prime looks a little bare though, there's too much exposed wiring and such. uhh i i haven't seen any of the recent stuff though, but the guy i think looks pretty badass is the helicopter guy. i don't know any of the new people's names >.<

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ED DECEPTICON · Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject:

Had to go with the second choice,but the first one is damn true as well! I figure if i look at the bots enough times maby they will grow on me?....

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