Here's a thing.

I think its safe to say the majority of the active posters on here are pretty disapointed with the direction the movie has taken, and the designs of the movie Transformers themselves.

Indeed, the TF fandom is split amongst themselves between those who detest the new look and those who are supportive of it. As we all know, the arguments on certain boards *cough cough TFLive cough* (and others) have put some of us off using them for good.

A lot of the arguments are unsound, or rely on belittling the other side to make the point, ie, if someone expresses a wish for more traditional looking bots, someone will inevitably chime in with the played out "you just want a carbon copy of G1" or "its not 1984 anymore".

Soooo anyway, I thought it might make for an interesting experiment, here in a cool n laidback environment, where nobody's gonna throw a hissy fit, to intelligently break down exactly what arguments work and what ones do not. I'll throw out some of the standard arguments and I'd like to hear as many of you as possible's take on them.

So, for starters:

Quote:

If they used the classic style, it would look too much like a cartoon.

Discuss.

Again, I point everyone to the WETA website where they've done pre-production work on the Evangelion live action movie. While updated, they don't deviate too far from the source.

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Spider-Man -- the suit doesn't look cheesey at all. It's danged near identical to the comics version save for raised silver webbing.

It can be done.

Personally, I think this was a choice. Whether Bay's or Hasbro's ... ? The jury is still out . Though Bay's apparent disdain for the classic designs during that video interview seems to point to his personal dislike of them.

I think it could have worked. I just don't think they cared to try.

I don't think so necessarily, but I'd rather have received something new and more realisitc. The Alts. are the favorite example and a good one. I honestyly think they could've pulled of the toon look with minor adjustments just fine. But stand by the bring on an Alt-esque motiff

PC I think you're on the right track there, that's kind of what I'm getting at too. "classic" Transformers, updated, which is essentially what BT/Alts are, they're Transformers in the traditional "classic" sense.

doing something with the style and/or heart of something else doesn't necessarily mean that it WILL be that. great ideas presented in the original toon. can be brought WAY farther than everything since then (including hte original itself) put together. there's SOOOOO much more than just optimus vs. megatron. what about a conquering phase early on, then the colonies slowly break away. later during (or possibly soon after) a civil war, Cybertron gets invaded.

sorry, got myself a bit off the subject, but nifty idea, though eh?

Oooh.

Some quite excellent responses there. Totally agree with ya, Doggimus, every animation test I've seen with ore traditional designed bots looked fine to me, and, like our Kneon says, I bet the face they didn't actually WANT traditional TFs is closer to the mark.

Also, Apoth nails in in his customary potty-mouth style.

This film would have a greater chance of success and acceptance, given the manner of designs we're seeing, if it were done under a non-Transformers banner.

But Bladeybabes, thats where you and I differ - I didn't want HUGE amounts of kibble, BUT, kibble for me is part of their iconic look and what I love about them - its what makes them stand out from any other given mecha. For instace, look at kibbleless Megatron - you could place him in ANY given sci-fi film and people wouldn't think"whats a Transformer doing in this?" and that for me is pretty damning. I was expecting change, but I wasn't expecting them to not look like Transformers.

Aaaaaanyway, here's another:

Quote:

Transformers is all about change. Change is inevitable. They changed the X-Men after all for their film. Its ironic that a Transformers fan is so opposed to change. Beast Wars was also a huge departrure and now its one of the mode loved aspects of Transformers.

(also, apologies for not phrasing the pro-arguments as pedanticaly or insultingly as many others do)

[quote="i-kandi"]

Quote:

Transformers is all about change. Change is inevitable. They changed the X-Men after all for their film. Its ironic that a Transformers fan is so opposed to change. Beast Wars was also a huge departrure and now its one of the mode loved aspects of Transformers.

Semi-true.

The whole 'Transformers change modes, so therefore change is inherent both within the individual transformer and the franchise as a whole' argument is taking lateral thinking that bit too far and punting it out for a throw-in. I assume you're alluding to the guy who posted 'Transformers change modes, so it's ironic you hate change so much' thing all over the LAM forums a couple of months back?

That bit's crap, indeed.

However, the other bits are, to some extent, true. Beast Wars was arguably a bigger departure than this film- organics and lots of beast modes in, vehicles out. Design-wise, the robots themselves were vastly different body-wise, although in some cases, elements were retained that were reminiscent of their G1 incarnations. However, I'd suggest that Prime still being a truck, Bumblebee's yellowness, and Jazz's big visor represent a similar degree of reminiscence.

Then there's Beast Machines. In a way, I think of these movie bots as a BM evolution- Transformers becoming increasingly lean, poseable, wiry.

Change is inevitable, as is resistance. The degree of resistance, I would argue, would depend on the degree of attachment of the individual to each generation's respective designs, and personal taste. I always liked the poseable, wiry bots (Cyberjets are kryptonite to my bank account's powers). I'm not averse thus far to most of what I've seen of the designs (Screamer and Megsy excepted). There have been so many iterations of the franchise that, to me, this is just another one. My tastes being wider (or hell, maybe less discriminating) than others, I do not have a problem with this latest change (yet).

As for the X-Men thing, I never bring other franchises into the argument. It's a different set of rules.

I simply must set some time aside later to play!

And, y'know, toys...

Quote:

Transformers is all about change. Change is inevitable. They changed the X-Men after all for their film. Its ironic that a Transformers fan is so opposed to change. Beast Wars was also a huge departrure and now its one of the mode loved aspects of Transformers

WaR covers kinda what I was gonna say. And basically it's the pointer that shows what a weak arguement the bumph we got fed is:

Wreck and Rule wrote:

The whole 'Transformers change modes, so therefore change is inherent both within the individual transformer and the franchise as a whole' argument is taking lateral thinking that bit too far and punting it out for a throw-in

But:

Wreck and Rule wrote:

Beast Wars was arguably a bigger departure than this film- organics and lots of beast modes in, vehicles out. Design-wise, the robots themselves were vastly different body-wise, although in some cases, elements were retained that were reminiscent of their G1 incarnations. However, I'd suggest that Prime still being a truck, Bumblebee's yellowness, and Jazz's big visor represent a similar degree of reminiscence

Would Beast Wars have been so well-liked if it hadn't been written in the West? If it had been exactly the same visually, but with one of those horrible meandering Japanese-written storylines (and you know they'd have crowbarred some kids in there somewhere to tell the TFs how to transform or something), would it be so fondly remembered?
Sorry, went off-topic for a bit. Maybe a question for another thread?

Wreck and Rule wrote:

As for the X-Men thing, I never bring other franchises into the argument. It's a different set of rules

Exactly - besides, with the X-Men, they really couldn't go all-out and totally redesign the main charaters to the extent of, say, GorillaScream. At their core, the X-Men characters usually still have to be 'human' in their basic look. A robot (and that's all the TFs are to Bay really) can be any shape so desired.

you should send that over to shootfortheedit and dm, cov

Wow. Cov's on a roll. There's a reason he runs this place.

Lovin' it!

I loved that post re: the aesthetic first time round Cov, and, for some batty reason, dug it even more the second.